Toddler Ponzi Schemes Edition
S1: The following podcast contains explicit language. Welcome to Mom and dad are fighting Slate’s parenting podcast Thursday, April 15th. The Toddler Ponzi Schemes Edition. I’m Dan Coifs. I’m a writer at Slate and the author of the book How to Be a Family. And I’m the dad to Laura, who’s 15, and Harpa, who’s 13. We live in Arlington, Virginia.
S2: I’m Jamilah Lemieux, a writer contributor to Slate’s Care and Feeding Parenting column and co-host of Slate’s Wild and Wise Chat Show. And Mom tonight, Emma, who is eight. And we live in Los Angeles, California. I’m Elizabeth Mutantes. I write the Home School and Family Travel Blog that such Gousse I’m the mom to Three Littles Henry who’s nine, Oliver who sticks, and Teddy who’s four. And we live in Navarre, Florida.
S1: On today’s show. We’ve got a question from a mom whose son received one of those send stickers to six people, chain letters. What should a parent do to keep your kid from being embroiled in some kind of toddler sticker Bernie Madoff situation? Then the CDC says that black women over 30 are more than four times as likely to suffer pregnancy related mortality than white women. On Tuesday, President Biden proclaimed that this week is Black Maternal Health Week. So Djamila is talking with Rose, aka James from the Black Mamas Matter Alliance about the racial disparities that black mothers face during pregnancy and childbirth. And on Slate. Plus, wow, Schoolhouse Rock is still alive and well and Disney plus, but might be getting a little bit dated. So we’re going to pick some topics that aren’t Schoolhouse Rock songs yet, but really deserve to be. But let’s start this week with a dilemma. Elizabeth, you have a dilemma and you need us to weigh in.
S2: Take it away. I do. OK, so as you know, we are moving to Colorado Springs. And with that move comes a change of like our whole life. And I’ve always said that every time we move, I’m going to evaluate our school situation based on kind of each child and the place where we are and all of that. So I’m looking at home school academies for the two oldest. And Teddy is going to preschool like he needs to not be at home every day. So I’ve found a lovely preschool for him that he’s been accepted into. It is not close to the house. It is like twenty five minutes from the home we’re going to be in. I have found two home school academies that would be perfect for Henry and Oliver. They’re different. They meet on different days. They are also like twenty minutes to twenty five minutes away from the house in different directions. There is a school that has a home school academy or like full time school walking distance from our home. So the dilemma is like how in a pandemic do I decide, like do I send these kids to the perfect situation for them? It’s one day a week. What’s a big deal? But we’re driving, like, all around or like I’m assuming that we’ll be able to go to these things that like with the pandemic’s at a place where we can go, but I can’t go see them to evaluate like, well, what is the difference between sending them to what I think are these ideal schools, which is like this for a school for Henry and this like art school for Oliver, or do I just like do the thing that makes the most convenient sense and say, like, everyone’s going to the school that’s right back there? Or do I, like, send Oliver to one? Like, do I choose one kid to get to go do the best thing? I’m like completely at a loss for at what point do I choose convenience or do I choose the best choice for each of them as individuals?
S1: OK, so let me follow up on this question with a question. In any case, no matter what you decide for the two older boys, this will be happening once a week.
S2: Yes, this year it’s not sending anyone to full time school.
S1: OK, this is the easiest question anyone’s ever asked me.
S2: I think we have the same having
S1: your kids to school that they going walk to, which is totally fine and is only one day a week. So like what is the worst that could happen is that maybe they kind of like it 80 percent as much as the other one. One day a week. And the best that can happen is that you are not in your car for like an hour and forty five fuckin minutes and Colorado Springs traffic every Tuesday, that sounds like a nightmare. I feel certain that if this neighborhood school and what I am sure is the most adorable neighborhood imaginable in Colorado Springs is good enough for you to even consider sending your kids there. It’s totally great for them to go to for a day each week. They’ll enjoy it, will enjoy walking there. They’ll enjoy meeting kids from their neighborhood, and you will enjoy not sitting in the fucking car. That is my answer.
S2: Strong co-sign I OK, the only asterisk. If one child can be plucked off this island, if you believe that going out of your way and taking one of the three children somewhere a little bit further away would absolutely make a tremendous difference for that child, then I would suggest doing it with one, but not all three of them. Perhaps you should just pick which one you like. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So which one was your favorite kid. Depends on. But you’re
S1: already sending one kid if you’re already driving twenty five minutes each
S2: way, I could just send him somewhere local too. I just this is like I would encourage that. Well I know it’s just hard because I may never get an opportunity to be somewhere in which we get into schools or that we get these other opportunities only because we move so frequently. Right, though. Like we. Yeah, you’re absolutely right. Like there is a great school walking distance. And of course, that’s Jeff’s opinion. It’s just like push them out the door once a week. This is great. But I also feel like am I passing up this opportunity for, like Henry to do this for a school thing which is only available, like to fourth graders? Am I passing up, you know, this opportunity? Like do I say like, OK, well, Henry, you can do the for school and then in two years, if we’re still here, like Oliver can apply to that and we’ll see if he gets in. Like I feel very much like I want to give them all these great opportunities. But you’re absolutely right. The reason that I haven’t just been like this is a great idea is because of the driving. But in my head, I’m thinking I’m going to meet Mom from the neighborhoods who send them here. I’m going to have a nice little carpool. I’m going to be driving once a week. My little van full of kids. Someone else is going to be I mean, I’m thinking like, you know, I’m going to develop a little community and not do that. That’s totally
S1: possible.
S2: Also possible that it won’t happen. Right. Very wisely. Where am I going to meet these people?
S1: It’s also possible that you could meet a community of parents in your own community at the school, in your community. Oh, I mean, I’m
S2: definitely going to do that. Like, I’m definitely going to be right. But I mean, I think part of the thing with this crazy school choice is that a lot of people do not end up at the school in their neighborhood. Right. Like people are choosing all these schools because every school has some thing. So they’ve taken these neighborhood schools and they’re not even like people are going from all over the city to these different schools. Find out why they chose the school by your house and get enthusiastic about that thing. That’s true.
S1: There’s two different ways to think about this, I think. Right. One is that there’s a. There’s a constant battle that we fight as parents between between wanting the best for our kids and then making decisions as to when good enough is fine. And it’s really hard to make that decision, especially about something as big a school, because there’s an enormous amount of pressure on parents, I think, especially moms, to to never be settling for less than the best for their kids because it’s viewed as as some kind of harm that you’re doing to those kids if you don’t choose the quote unquote best. I mean, the counterargument to that is that. Society often works the best, as you might remember, from the Netherlands, when people are just a lot more satisfied with perfectly fine and don’t go off hunting for the best all the time for their kids, but instead work to make the thing that’s perfectly fine, as good as it can possibly be. So that’s one way to think of it, the other way to think of it. If you want sort of a more just like, you know, pros and cons, weights and measures style is that. You can make a reasonable argument that a significant amount of the benefit that your kids would get from these amazing experiences gets counterbalanced by the enormous amount of time you spend in the car getting there and the stress and difficulty that that adds to your and their lives as a result. Probably not all of it, but certainly it doesn’t become a universal good as a result of all this time that you’re in the car. And so if you’re trying to figure out, well, what’s the best thing? Maybe the best thing is not subjecting them to that. And due to that and instead giving them an anchor in the place, this brand new place that they’re about to live by letting them go to the school and this exact place,
S2: I 100 percent agree with that. And I only want to add to put yourself in the equation, you know, like you are the person who is going to have to do the majority of this pick up and transport, I assume, right? Oh, yeah, all of that. I mean, this is that’s essentially why although Jeff leveed an opinion, it comes down to me because this is like my you know, like I’m in charge of this aspect of how our family works. And so because it’s me, because it’s my time right there. Such a drastic difference between time spent home schooling and, you know, time spent being a chauffeur, you know. And so even though you’re not a school bus driver, you’re still mom in the car, which means there’s a podcast and a snack and an anecdote. It just it is going to, I think, compromise your own quality of life in a way that doesn’t necessarily seem worth it.
S1: This is a really we’ve weighed in great news. Once again, these decisions are legally biased. So I feel like I can’t wait to hear the good news
S2: is really good because it’s definitely like count. Like my you know, my instinct is to like, put every one of the different schools and write and run everybody around and figure out how to make it work. So this is this is good. And I have to make a mistake as soon
S1: as you sacrifice your own comfort for a perceived best opportunity for your children. Yeah. Part of the argument is that it’s not only your own is that is a as Jamila says, your situation matters and UTSA out of the equation. And B, it’s not only you who suffers from those long drives and from a lack of
S2: connection that the kids are going to be in the car. And sometimes I’m going to times like because, you know, preschool is half day anesthesia, OK? When we have to start recording the podcast at like nine o’clock local time to accommodate accommodate Elizabeth’s school schedule,
S1: I can’t wait to find out which of your kids is your favorite. Yeah, come back with a full report when this decision is made and we and our listeners will eagerly anticipate knowing what happens. And I can’t wait to tell you what a great decision you made or yell at you. All right. Before we get to our listener question this week, let’s talk some business. If you want to be notified about everything that’s going on in the Slate Parenting Cinematic Universe, sign up for the Slate parenting newsletter. Besides getting all of Slate’s great content in one place, including links to every new mom and dad are fighting, ask a teacher care and feeding, et cetera, et cetera, you’ll get much, much more. It’s just an email from me. It’s it’s a it’s a letter from me to you right in your inbox every week telling you a story complaining about cicadas, something new. Sign up at Slate dotcom slash parenting email. And finally, if you are looking to connect with other parents to throw some questions out there, to look for some recommendations, just look for a little bit of moral support, join our parenting group on Facebook. Super active. It’s also moderated so the jerks get cleared out. Just search for sleep parenting on Facebook. OK, let’s get into our listener question this week. It’s being read, as always, by the fabulous Shasha Layana.
S3: Dear Mom and dad are fighting. Our one and a half year old son received some mail from his three year old cousin. I peeked in and saw sticker club and some stickers and thought, oh, neat. It wasn’t until the next morning when I opened the package with him at breakfast that I realized what had been delivered. A chain letter. I thought, these are dyed with AOL email addresses. You know, the drill send stickers to the person listed in spot one, a friend of our niece who we don’t know, then copy the letter and send to six people and so on and so on. The letter also says, if you cannot do this in six days, please let my mom know because it is no fair to all the other kids who have participated so far. I do not want to pass on his burden to anyone else. Do we just send stickers to the first kid? Do we forge six separate letters to our niece? Can I ignore it entirely? What should we do?
S2: So my instincts being a prisoner of boredom for the past year is to say, just do it, because this is a thing to do with the asterisk that this project could very well end up on my dining table where creative projects go to die. There are so many there from my taxes to decoupage table that I’m making. But this sounds like a thing to do. Right? But I understand that Elizabeth has done some investigative reporting into the art of the chain letter that might give us some pause. So I’m saying go for it. But my answer is likely to change after we’ve heard a little bit that.
S1: Elizabeth, tell us what you’ve learned.
S2: So, first of all, chain letters involving money are legal. So everyone should know that if you are asked to, like, send money and then you’re going to get more money. Right. That is that is illegal.
S1: It’s literally a Ponzi.
S2: You literally a Ponzi scheme. OK, so I had to go look up a version of this letter because I needed to know what it promised. But I basically tried to figure out how many people would have to be involved for everyone to get there. I think what I looked up said like that you’re going to get 36 stickers or something like that in 10 weeks. Anyway, the point is, when I did the math, in order for your child to get the stickers, which I know you don’t care about, but 12 million people would have to be involved for your child to end up with the stickers. Yes, because it’s like they say, after 10 weeks, everyone’s going to get thirty six packs and you need to send it to six people, but you end up at the bottom of the letter.
S1: So basically, in order for everyone at your level of the scheme to get all their
S2: stuff, you get all that’s how
S1: many people what would happen eventually. Yeah, but all you need to get your 36 stickers is just for the right 36 people to happen to get the letter and say, sure,
S2: the idea is like, will you just send it to the first person and then you put your name at the bottom and you move it up and you’re going to get thirty six packs. So by the time you move from six up, OK, anyway, whatever that number is, if you then estimate a really let’s say like a a cost of stickers, I somehow ended up with the number of like 54 million dollars in stickers in around in order for your child to get thirty six stickers because it was 12 million people and they’d need to send the six pack stickers. OK, this
S1: is a great Pro Publica sponsored to like a ten reporter investigation. My letters and the results will shock you.
S2: My point is do not get involved in this mess. First of all, this child, your child is one care. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. The child is one OK child. That said, I don’t know how I didn’t realize it’s a little young for organised crime is all I’m saying. OK, I didn’t think oh I got excited because it was a chain letter and I hadn’t seen one since I was a kid. And so I started throwing around. I thought that this was really the parents of three year olds doing this. I did not realize that there was a one and a half year old involved, which somehow is worse. I think I’m taking back my answer, even though I have I would love to see the math on that list. I’m dying to know.
S1: It’s just that gif of the person with all the numbers that she
S2: actually comes up with it out like the computer to run, to run the numbers, because
S1: it’s possible that that computer is not no computer sophisticated enough has been invented yet.
S2: Yeah. To run the numbers on the on the sticker club, the Ponzi scheme,
S1: I think you should just do it because this is the one chance to do one of these stupid chain letters where it won’t where it won’t matter, that it will never work and your kid won’t get any stickers because your kids only one and we’ll never know any better. So just do it. Who cares? But when your kid gets older, definitely don’t do it, because my number one memory of these chain letters is doing this exact chain letter in the year nineteen eighty one when I was six, sending off my six packs of stickers to all the people on the top of the list and never getting a single fucking sticker in the mail from anyone.
S2: Yeah. Because it’s a it’s a it’s. But why. Like you’re not even helping your niece. Like I think the best solution to this, like if she feels like she needs to, to send something and honestly my my real problem other than it being illegal, it’s not so. And I said, well sure, sure. Yeah.
S1: I don’t know what stickers.
S2: Yes. Fuckers send me stickers now, but I you know, it’s like, OK, I’ll just say what really bothers me is this idea of the guilt thing, which is what chain letters do. Right. And there are obviously like the ones that go around by email, like we all delete them, like no one is going to come kill you or whatever the chain letter says. If you don’t do the thing. I don’t like that. It’s like Ortel. Tell my mom so. So what are you going to send it out like to other people? Like nobody is getting their stickers, even if you send the sticker to the to the person, the number one spot, like your niece is still not getting stickers. So what do you feel bad about is that you want your niece to get stickers to send your niece some stickers?
S1: It is insane to me that the parents of the three year old was like, yeah, let’s do this. I would like to know more about the relationship here.
S2: The idea of being unfair to the other kids who participated is so maybe that is just part of the language that’s circulating in the letter. But also who sent it to a three year old? Like, how did it get there in the first place? Like, is your niece starting this? Like, is this where this particular chain begins with your niece, a friend, because she’s in spot number one? She’s in slender. OK, I think that you should just buy your niece a pack of stickers and send it to her and say, here, this is for your sticker scheme you’re doing. You know, we’re not going to participate. But since you need you know, if you need to send stickers out to people here you go like you’re helping her in her work. Do you
S1: guys not understand that chain letters like this are the only way we’re going to save the U.S. Postal Service, the very service that delivers our ballots every presidential election send
S2: six stickers to six people. Don’t require any say, pay it forward.
S1: I think I still come on out on Jimmy details original side like. It’s a 10 minute activity that at least will keep your kid occupied. So just do it. Who cares? You’re one and a half year old 10 minutes later won’t even remember it. You’ll never have to talk about it again. And at least you did something. At least you did your part for the U.S. Postal Service,
S2: when my kids get these letters, I’m going to say, you know, you can send them to
S1: layer on Harper over. Can’t wait for my kids to have an activity.
S2: They could start a sticker club, just not with money, though. It would be very lucrative if
S1: my kids were going to start some kind of Ponzi scheme. What would they be trying to get? Harpa would definitely start like a make up club, like send the person on top of this list six Bronner’s layer probably would just ask for money and get and end up getting sent to juvie.
S2: And there are a lot of juvy Ponzi schemer. Do you think?
S1: I have to assume it’s mostly I mean, the number the prevalence of chain letters suggests to me that that’s mostly what kids end up in juvie for.
S2: I think Nyima would also go for makeup and perhaps Tic Tacs if it were like you have to do the six Tic-Tac dances or else you’re in trouble. I think I feel so strongly about this because every Christmas do you get those like, you know, send a sister a gift thing that in an adult, like send it to the top, it’s just a chain letter. But they want you to, like, send something on Amazon to someone like want to be fun, to get random Amazon stuff. And it’s like these are Ponzi schemes. Why have you not learned this?
S1: And thank God I never have
S2: gotten one of those kind of thing. I’m apparently OK if
S1: I have a better class of sending
S2: these things to me. It always ends with me. I never hate them. I never would send it to me. I was in prison. OK, I will. I’ll send it to you. Give me
S1: your word. Result of this is that somehow I have to send a bunch of stickers to this lady’s niece. I realize how this all ended up. Congratulations, lady. Your niece is getting like twenty five stickers are me. All right. Thank you for writing in. I don’t know if we really solve this or even if the math checks out, but I enjoyed Elizabeth’s passion on the subject. Unmatched, perhaps an intensity in each subject we’ve discussed on this show. If you got something you want to gripe about and you want to see if it’s got to be the one thing that pushes, send us in your rant. Email us at mom and dad. It’s late. Com or poster to these late parenting Facebook.
S2: According to the CDC, approximately seven hundred women die each year in the United States as a result of pregnancy or delivery complications. What’s worse is that there’s a tremendous disparity when it comes to race and ethnicity in pregnancy related deaths with black and Native American women being two to three times more likely to die from a pregnancy related cause than white women in certain areas. The numbers are even worse. For example, in New York, black women are 12 times more likely to die than white women when it comes to pregnancy related causes. There are a number of other devastating things that are happening to black moms and their babies during what should be the most celebratory, the most special time in their lives. Luckily, there are a lot of folks that are stepping up to address this, that have been addressing this for a very long time. And among them there is the Black Mamas Matter Alliance and they are hosting the Black Maternal Health Conference, the BMOC April 16th and 17th during Black Maternal Health Week. The Black Maternal Health Conference is the Premier Assembly for black women, health professionals, advocates and decision makers working to improve maternal health outcomes using birth justice, reproductive justice and human rights frameworks. We are very excited to have, as the guest today, Rose, aka James, the national membership director of Black Mamas Matter Alliance, to talk about the conference and about these devastating disparities that exist in the world of black maternal health. Thank you so much for being here, Rose. Thank you. Thank you so much for having us and spotlighting us today. This is a topic that I’m very passionate about. At one point I was in training to become a doula and I have served as a Dulan. A few births moving across the country and the pandemic have not made it super easy for me to continue on that path. But one, it was something I took on because of these statistics. But the more I got into it, the more that I learned about the experiences that black mothers are having when trying to give birth. And and since this has become a more popular topic, I guess the way that I’m looking at the births of my friends, my own birth story and the women around me, I’m finding more often than not this trouble. Right. I’m curious to know, what’s your point of entry? How did you get involved in this work? When did you become aware that when it comes to black women and giving birth, there’s trouble? Is this something that you always knew of that that you were clear on or something that you weren’t able to really articulate until much more recently? I’ve always been interested in public health and maternal and child health, but it really wasn’t until I was pregnant myself with my son. I was in my master’s program for public health and my focus at the time was HIV was very immersed in that world. And I actually spent a lot of time in West Africa studying about maternal and child health, where we typically hear about the global South or Africa or Asia, Southeast Asia, these places where people view us poor places of the world having bad health outcomes, particularly when it comes to maternal and child health. I happened to be pregnant at the same time while I was doing this work. And so halfway through my program, my husband, I moved here to Atlanta where we live now. When I moved to Atlanta, I started researching. Hospitals are where I wanted to give birth to my son and I knew for me I wanted to have as natural of a birth as possible. I wanted to have a midwife. I knew I was very low risk and I wanted to give birth in the hospital. That will allow me to have freedom of movement. And I wouldn’t be just restricted to what the doctor just told me. And so through that research, I really learned how bad of a situation we are here in the US. You know, black women here in the US are being killed three to four times more than their white counterparts, Hispanic counterparts, during and after childbirth, which is ridiculous. If you think about the US and you know how much money we spend billions of dollars on health care each year and we are recognizing the world as a developing industrialized country. But yet, you know, black women are still facing the brunt of a system that, frankly, doesn’t really listen to us. It doesn’t really respect our wishes and our values and it’s not really cater to support us. And so going through that experience myself and having a community that was supporting me and having a really great birth, it just had me thinking, why can’t every black woman have this birth? That’s how I started working in May about three years ago. So it’s personal. And I always say the personal is political. So that’s really my entry into this work. You mentioned money and the amount that is spent in this country on health care. I think it’s. Also important to mention that the mortality rates for black mothers hold across class lines, right? So this is not a matter of if the majority of black people in this country are poor, it stands to reason that they would have less access to, say, prenatal care or certain other interventions that might ensure a safe pregnancy. But that upper middle class college trained more women, unmarried college degree or not, we actually know that, you know, a black woman with a college degree is less off worse than a white woman with a high school degree. When we look at maternal mortality data trends, which is to me, it’s it’s very troubling. Absolutely. And it speaks to the fact that there is not just one thing that we can point to. Right. We can’t say this is because of hypertension or this is because of diet. This is because you know that there are so many factors, including medical racism throughout one’s life that could lead them to a negative outcome during pregnancy. Rose, for someone who is black and preparing to at some point bear a child. This is incredibly stressful information to take in. I’ll say I had a child at twenty eight. I read nothing. I did no preparation. You know, I just kind of want, you know, I was winging it in a lot of ways and I realized I was incredibly fortunate, you know, because the women that I know and also, you know, it’s been almost a decade later. So my friends that are having kids now are also having kids at a different stage of life. But what I see around me is that, you know, the women in my circle are taking a lot of care and energy to pay attention to what they’re eating or, you know, the questions that they’re asking their doctor because of this mortality crisis. So I have a twofold question. One, how can I people that are preparing to have children best prepare themselves for a happy, healthy, safe birth to how do you suggest that black birthing persons of the future, be they black moms or otherwise, take in this information? Right. Because you should not it’s not that we should look away from this crisis, but this is a lot of stressful information to take in when you’re thinking about your fertility and you’re thinking about what might happen to you if you’re going into the hospital or if you’re currently pregnant and you’re listening to something like this and you’re reading about these things. Yeah, we hear these statistics, black women at three to four times more likely to die. And I think that can be very terrifying for some folks, like you’re saying. And so we’re B.M. we’re really thinking about reframing the narrative. Black women are not showing up to birth, wanting to die. It’s a system that’s not set up for them, which is killing them or harming them during the birth process, whether it’s before or after or doing so. I think, one, taking the blame off of us and realizing that it’s not our problem that this system is not set up to protect us and it’s not doing its job to ensure that we are having safe and healthy and happy deliveries and pregnancies and then postpartum and all these experiences across the reproductive health spectrum. I think one putting that blame back, shifting that and saying, hey, it’s not me, you know, yes, everybody can do things to, you know, take care of themselves and, you know, prepare their body. But at the end of the day, we’re seeing it can be perfectly healthy and you could still have a negative experience or, you know, you can be a whole doctor or a whole professor and you can still experience more maternal mortality and morbidity. So I think for us, it’s really putting the onus on systems that are put in place that are not helping us and really thinking about what the systems change look like. How do we amplify the solutions within our communities that includes black midwives, doulas, lactation consultants that are fully versed in our culture and traditions, and they’re to embrace this as a safety net throughout this entire process. And then your other question, I like to talk about, you know, thinking about having a baby and or even exploring, you know, becoming pregnant with this information. You know, I’ve been working with FEMA for about almost three years now, and I just had a baby six months ago. And so, you know, knowing the work that I’m doing, knowing these statistics and being so intimate with the details and knowing things, I remember when I was pregnant with my daughter, there was moments I was terrified, even though I had really good providers. I had a do love, really incredible doula and a whole community and support system. I all today going into labor, going to the hospital, even. I know this hospital is incredible. And I they they respected my wishes the first time and I knew they’re going to do it again this time. There are still that fear, the inherent fear of being a black woman walking into this place. And you know when. In a moment. That I am supposed to be at ease as much as I can, because we know labor is hard, but you know as much as I can to prepare my body and my mind, to bring this human being into this world, having that additional fear or burden on there is something that my white counterparts do not think about or have to deal with. And so thinking about that additional stress that’s put on us in general and society on a daily basis and then coming into this experience of even having that. And so I think, you know, of course, inform yourself as much as you can asking a friend or, you know, who has had a positive experience with a provider that, you know, that can recommend you for. Thankfully, you know, this week is also black and turn to Health Week. And on Saturday, we highlighted some incredible new technology that’s being developed by black women for black maternal health, particularly the Earth app by Kimberly SEALs and others, where it’s basically like Yelp. And so you can be like, hey, girl, I went to this provider and, you know, I didn’t feel good about this experience. And then people can go and look and see that. So I think it’s really, like I said, putting the onus back on the systems that are not providing for us and taking care of us in the way that they would our white counterparts, and then also knowing that our power and our resilience in our communities and our families, you know, we continue to, you know, know the solutions that work best for us. And so I think having a community, having a village that’s supporting you in this process and that’s include your provider, your doula, your mom, your sister, your partner, when you start having these conversations within our families, our communities about, you know, what is really going on and how we can support each other and make sure that we are our own best advocates within our community, around us, that we center ourselves and is also advocating for us in the process. So we are doing the work every day and all the organizations that are part of our lives are doing the work just to secure a safe future for black mamas. And today, incredibly, we just got news. The President Biden signed a resolution officially recognizing Black Maternal Health Week and the work that BMA is doing and all the organizations that are part of our lives who are really revolutionizing what it means to have community based care for black moms. So speaking of the work being done, how can folks be supportive? Rose, we have a whole list at our website of our partners who are around the country, and they do all types of community based work from Tulo based organizations, lactation consultants, legal, whatever it is. These incredible organizations are doing it. So you can connect with them by visiting our website, DeBrie W-W Black Mammas Matter dot org. And in terms of supporting me directly, you know, we always direct folks to sign up for our newsletter by also visiting our website. Follow us on Sociales. You know, we live in a digital age where like, you know, everybody’s wanting to seek information. And so really following us on our Sociales is a great way to learn about a whole bunch of things and ways that you can get involved with the work that we’re doing and our partners are doing in their communities as well. So I know that registration for the conference this weekend is close, but there are one I believe there are some events that are public and two people will be able to access some of the some recaps and some footage from the conference in the weeks to come, right? Yes, of course. We’ll be sharing recaps from the conference on our cell shows and on our website. So definitely stay tuned for that. We also have a lot of things in our resources section, on our website. And if you could join us this year, make sure you stay tuned. Join us next year for sure. Thank you so much, Rose, for all of your work and for joining us today. Thank you so much, Jamila.
S1: All right. We’ve come to the part of the show where we choose individual items or concepts to recommend to you. Our listeners after years of debate have decided to call this segment recommendations. All right, Elizabeth, what do you have for us?
S2: I am recommending a book, and it’s not about Ponzi schemes, but it’s called Plastic’s Maritimers, An Invasive Species by Pego. And Anna is a Portuguese marine biologist and she wrote this beautiful book. It’s been translated into English that is kind of a reference book about oceans and pollution. And one of the things I love about it is that it’s beautifully illustrated, but it approaches the problem from a really specific nature, like it talks about why it is so hard to solve this pollution ocean problem and why it is so important. And then it essentially invites kids like here are some ideas we’ve had. Here’s why they sort of work. Here’s why they don’t work. What other things can you think about? And because of the illustrations, it’s really accessible to any of the kids to look at. We also like to all read it together, but I really love that it. Truly presents the problem as complex, because I think so many children’s books sort of say like, oh, we just need to go do a beach cleanup. And it’s like, yeah, that’s part of it. But this is a larger problem. And we’re really going to have to address this beach pollution and this plastic that’s in the ocean in a more serious way in a lot of different ways. So I really enjoy that. The book is beautiful and again, it’s called Plastic’s Maritimers An Invasive Species.
S1: Good one. What about you?
S2: I recently had to throw away all of my cookbooks, not that I had a ton of them, but they’ve gotten wet and pretty messed up. And I realized I’d been carrying most of them around for years without opening them up, just moving them from kitchen to a kitchen city to city, in part because when I want to find a recipe, there’s Google. Now, I can just like look it up on the Internet machine as opposed to having to go into an actual book until because I’m not really doing as much creative cooking as I like to. So I ended up deciding that I would purchase a cookbook for now and I got salt, fat, acid, heat. I know this is a huge book that everybody, you know, that’s really into cooking and food had something to say about when it first came out a couple of years ago. But I a person who’s not interested in the culinary arts, completely looked away, aside from the fact that the title of itself that I said he just kind of makes me hungry because it sounds like some sort of really well seasoned meat, even though I actually don’t eat red meat, just having it for a couple of weeks. I’ve learned so much already, just about like the science of cooking, which is something that I don’t think I’ve known a lot about. I know a little bit about baking. But anyway, if you want to be a better cook, if you want to learn how to properly salt your fish, for example, did you know that you’re supposed to do that like 15 minutes before you cook it as opposed to, like, immediately or as you’re cooking it, as I’ve done in the past? Anyway, you can learn a lot from this book. So salt, fat as it heats by. No sweat. It is an incredibly well illustrated and fun exploration through the art of cooking
S1: to recipes I love in that book, The Conveyor Belt Chicken. It’s an extremely simple, just a way of cooking chicken thighs, basically that makes them crispy and juicy and great. And then her Persian ish rice, which is basically a way to make Tardiff but a little bit easier and a little bit less likely to fail completely as every attempt I previously made to make that great Iranian rice dish with the crusty bottom. I’d always failed before, but I always succeed with some means recipe. It’s awesome.
S2: Very cool book. What do you have for us then?
S1: I’m recommending a children’s book series, probably best for second or third graders, kids who really like Captain Underpants or Big Mate, the sort of genre of chapter books with tons of drawings to fool kids into thinking they’re not really reading a chapter book. The books I’m recommending are called The Cookie Chronicles there by Matthew Swanson and Robbie Bear. There are many reasons I like them, but one is that they’re they have the appeal of Captain Underpants without being quite as stupid as Captain Underpants. They’re, I think, a little smarter and more thoughtful while still being very enjoyable and funny. They follow a third grader named Ben Yokoyama and his best friend Janet and the kids in his class. And in each book in the series, he finds a fortune and a fortune cookie and has that fortune sort of starts to take over his life as he tries to follow it. In the first one, he tries to live every day as if it were your last. And the second one, he tries to figure out if good things really come to those who wait. They’re very charming, very fun. The authors are a married couple who live somewhere near me, I think in like out on the Eastern Shore in Maryland. And they’re really fun. And the books are really fun. They’re called The Cookie Chronicles. The first one is called Ben Yokoyama and the Cookie of Doom. The second one is Ben Yokoyama and the cookie of Endless Waiting. I think kids would really like them.
S2: They sound perfect for Henry. I’m going to say. Yes, good road trip book. Serious for him.
S1: Sounds great. He’s in the sweet spot for that. Yeah, I think so. All right. So that’s it for our show one last time. If you want us to weigh in on your quandaries, send us an email nominate at Slate Dotcom. You can also posted to the Slate Parenting Facebook group. Find that by just searching for Slate parenting on Facebook. And obviously, if you haven’t already subscribed, you should subscribe to Mom and dad are fighting the very podcast you just listen to. Do that wherever you listen to podcasts, just MASH that subscribe every time someone does that, a little bell goes off in my house and sleeps until it helps us out. You’ll never miss an episode, so it helps you out. And oh, another thing you do is you can break the show, especially if you like. It’s Mom and Dad are fighting is produced by Rosemarie Nelson for Camille Alemu and Elizabeth New Camp. I’m Dan Joyce. Thanks for listening. Hello, sleepless listeners. We really appreciate all you do for us and for Slate Dotcom. We appreciate your support. We appreciate you listening to our bonus segments where we unveil really our best and stupidest ideas. And this one is definitely in that spirit. We are throwing it back to Schoolhouse Rock, which is all over Disney. Plus my kids have seen it there. I think Elisabeth’s kids have seen it there. But you know what? A lot of those episodes, while being about timeless civics issues, are nonetheless a little bit dated. So I really wanted to know, what is it about life in twenty, twenty one that we think Schoolhouse Rock should do brand new songs all about. But let’s start. I just want to know, do you guys have a favorite classic Schoolhouse Rock song?
S2: Mine is definitely conjunction Junction. I feel like that’s the easy answer. But I also didn’t grow up with Schoolhouse Rock, so it’s something that I kind of experienced in little spurts. I also didn’t know until recently that it’s taking on this new life. But yes, I always loved Conjunction Junction. I also had listed conjunct injuncted because that’s the one that, like, sticks in your head so well. But I also really like the suffering to suffer age one with the Wonderwoman lady, and she’s like talking about women having to fight for their rights. I thought that was always fun. I remember liking that one. And I also really had in my mind that I liked three is a magic number. But when I went back to watch it with the kids, they were less like they were like, this is slow. What is it? Why are we watching this one? They like some of the more like I’m just a bill and things like that.
S1: I’m a big fan of The Shot Heard Round the world. A great lesson in the American Revolution from the standpoint of 1976, much less solid historical footing if you look at it from contemporary perspectives. But it’s the only school have structured in song that has an incredible cover by Ween on the classic nineteen nineties indie rock album Schoolhouse Rock Rocks, on which various beloved alt rock bands like Folk Implosion and Better Than Ezra and also weirdly skeletal cover Schoolhouse Rock songs. If you shopped for used CDs in the 1990s, you always had at least seven copies of this sitting in the bin because it’s not actually that satisfying of an album. But the Ween cover of The Shot around the world is in fact very good. It might be Ween heads will yell at me about this, but it might be the best Ween song. All right. But so the question is here in twenty twenty one, what is it that we wish Schoolhouse Rock would address? I’m going to start out by saying that it seems to me that the most important civics lesson that Schoolhouse Rock could deliver in twenty twenty one is about gerrymandering. Right. Like there should be a catchy gerrymandering song, maybe even like features like a fun loving racist salamander named Jerry. And he talks about how he split, you know, split all the districts up in various states to make sure that all the rich white people are in one district and that all the black people are in another district. And I feel like that would be like a great lesson for kids. So I’d be all for a gerrymandering song. Elizabeth Watts, one you’d love to see.
S2: I want to see one about vaccines and just kind of one general health knowledge that the vaccines are, in fact, not microchips going into us, but in fact, they’re well researched scientific things that that help us fight disease as a community and and their overall usage as the community. Because it seems like although, you know, specifically about covid, but even prior to covid, we were facing, I think, a a larger picture that people don’t really understand what vaccines are or how they work, even just in like how you get your flu shot and and things like that. So I think a a good community song about a needle walking around maybe in the so I’m just a shot and kind of here’s here’s the process of what happens. Yeah.
S1: Right. I’m not a chip and I won’t give you up. Yeah exactly. You’d have to work on
S2: the right side. I kind of thought the guy could say those things. Remember how when there was a whole lot to back and he would just take a pause and say a bunch of stuff, he could just be like, hey, by the way,
S1: by the way, I won’t give your kids autism. Djamila, what about you?
S2: There’s so many topics, but one in particular that really stands out would be misinformation, fake news, if you will, fake news. I think you could do a whole Schoolhouse Rock series on media literacy. But one specifically, you know, a song about song teaching kids how to recognize what you saw the other day, Washington news posts that come as a credible source of information that people were like having a passionate reaction to. So just how to how you can tell the difference between a legitimate news source and fake news and also how. You can tell the difference between opinion writing and reporting, because that’s something that a lot of people get a little tripped up by to.
S1: I think those are really good. I mean, I think all three of these are things that if there was a Schoolhouse Rock song, that would definitely be a net gain in our culture. I also wonder if there are some sort of just like modern manners or social, you know, social mores issues that that a Schoolhouse Rock of today could really help,
S2: like anxiety, you know.
S1: Yeah, I was even thinking a little lighter than that, like what I would do when I’m like when I like leaving people on rap or or something like ghosting how to talk on the phone or like Godwin’s Law, like, don’t be the don’t be the person who brings up Hitler. And the Internet chat are like, oh, you know, what we need is what I’m tipping in restaurants. Like there should be one about how just always should tip in restaurants. It doesn’t matter. It should be like a catchy tune that goes like Start at twenty honey and go up from there. Yeah, no, I’m just, I’m just spit balling here but that seems like that becomes
S2: the tipping one would be great. That is that, that could be a crucial reset. I was thinking Internet trolling could also use a song and it could just be something like is this really something you need to share.
S1: Yeah, that’s a good song by like a little troll under a bridge.
S2: Yeah. Are you just here to make trouble? Yes, I am. That’s good. Faith arguments online. Yeah. That could fit into yours though Djamila. That is a that could be like a whole Internet series.
S1: Djamila who could do these modern twenty twenty one schoolhouse rocks. Who would
S2: you nominate. I definitely have to go at the roots. Yeah. They’ve done that like so they basically I do feel like they’ve done Schoolhouse Rock inspired clips for at least two episodes of Blackish where they explain something from Black History with a cartoon. And, you know, and they’ve got a lead singer, they have a lead vocalist who can rap and saying, you know, like it and they play well with others. Obviously, they’re great backing bands like You could have the Roots to be the house band for Schoolhouse Rock and bring in other vocalists.
S1: And kids know that, yes, they would have that would have a great effect. Yeah, I love that. That that’s a great idea. I mean, obviously, I think they should just bring in win everything and see if they can they could follow up on their success. Oh, there is one other issue I think is maybe crucial for Schoolhouse Rock. It’s very close to my heart, which is, of course, pay artists for their work, like maybe a little Schoolhouse Rock song about how when you listen to this Schoolhouse Rock song on Spotify, the roots only get like 0.01 cents. And that really isn’t that much money you to go through. Is it a dollar? No. Is it a quarter? No. Is it a penny? It’s not even a penny. But take your penny and cut it into one hundred pieces. And that’s how much we get when you stream the song on Spotify. I think they’d be really good. Plus somewhere in there you could also note that it’s a generally understood, you know, social code that if your friend writes a book, you buy the book.
S2: Right? That’s too. Yeah, yeah. Obviously that was a surprise twist at the end of that thought.
S1: Oh, I just I didn’t know reason. I just want to make sure everyone knows that’s just the thing you do. If your friend writes a book, you just buy the book, folks. It’s just the way it goes. I bought it. I believe you. That’s why you’re a true friend. All right. I hope that some public service minded company funds like, you know, seven or eight great short videos by The Roots about all these topics for Schoolhouse Rocks. Twenty, twenty one. I would watch the hell out of these. And I think a lot of kids were, too. What a set of great ideas. Good job, guys. Thank you, everyone, for listening to Mom and dad are fighting. And thank you for being members of Slate. Plus, we really appreciate it. You’re our heroes. You’re not Xeros, you’re just heroes. Thanks a lot. Talk to you next week.
